Overleg gebruiker:Goldenrowley

Beste Goldenrowley, van harte welkom op het Nederlandstalige WikiWoordenboek! Hartelijk dank voor uw medewerking aan dit project dat, zoals u waarschijnlijk wel weet, alle woorden in alle talen voor iedereen vrij en online toegankelijk wil maken. Uw bijdragen daaraan zien we met grote belangstelling tegemoet. Het Nederlandstalige WikiWoordenboek is een door iedereen vrij te bewerken woordenboek dat inmiddels 901.985 artikelen telt. Gun uzelf even tijd voor de tips in dit venster en begin daarna pas met het bewerken van uw eerste artikelen. Géén van die richtlijnen heeft kracht van wet, want WikiWoordenboek is en blijft natuurlijk vóór alles steeds vrij bewerkbaar. Een beetje houvast voordat u in het diepe springt kan natuurlijk nooit kwaad. Hoe leer ik dit eigenlijk? Is het niet vreselijk ingewikkeld? Enkele tips om het aanmaken van nieuwe pagina's simpel te maken. Hulp Overzicht van pagina's voor hulp en ondersteuning. Hoe u mee kunt doen met WikiWoordenboek Informatie over hoe u uw deel aan WikiWoordenboek kunt bijdragen. Helpdesk Voor al uw vragen over WikiWoordenboek. Conventies Opmaakafspraken voor artikelen. De kroeg Overleggen met andere WikiWoordenboek-gebruikers. Deze pagina, die nu op uw scherm staat, is trouwens uw persoonlijke overlegpagina; de plaats waar u berichten van andere WikiWoordenboekers ontvangt en beantwoordt. Iedere gebruiker heeft zo'n pagina. Wilt u een bericht voor iemand anders achterlaten, dan doet u dat dus op zijn of haar overlegpagina. Sluit uw bijdragen altijd af met vier tildes, dus zo: ~~~~. Een druk op de handtekeningknop heeft hetzelfde effect: uw bericht wordt automatisch ondertekend met uw gebruikersnaam en de datum en tijd waarop u uw boodschap voltooide. Versturen doet u met "Pagina opslaan". If your knowledge of our language is limited, you are nonetheless welcome of course! We appreciate your contributions. This message in other languages: English, français, Deutsch.

How I work

Hello folks. Since English is my first language, I am putting words I find on my page, but I do not feel qualified enough to put them in the Wiki. Please if you are expert in Dutch, feel free to add the words from my list to nl.wiktionary.org Goldenrowley (overleg) 13 jun 2021 22:10 (CEST)

As WikiWoordenboek is a rather small project a lot of the heavy lifting is done with templates. Unfortunately this results in a rather steep learning curve, irrespective of your knowledge in Dutch. Allow me to offer you a few tips that may come in handy.

1. When you add a Dutch word, it's always a good idea to start with the wikitext below: it will show the sound file or alert Gebruiker:Marcel coenders to add it.

{{=nld=}}
{{-pron-}}
*{{sound}}: {{audio|nl-{{pn}}.ogg|{{pn}}|nld}}

2. Headings in lemmas are nearly always created using templates. The most common ones are to be found in {{nl-noun-lemma}} for nouns, {{nl-adjc-lemma}} for adjectives and {{nl-verb-lemma}} for verbs. You will find these templates under the heading "Stramienen" in the lower part of the edit screen.

3. Try to add at least a part of speech template: {{-noun-}}, {{-verb-}}, {{-adjc-}} are the most common ones. We use them for phrases too.

4. When adding scouting terms, the label {{scouting}} can be used to start the gloss.

The experienced editors on Wiktionary usually remember very well how hard it is to find your way as a new user. So don't be afraid to make mistakes or ask questions. The WikiWoordenboek slogan would probably be something like "Het kan altijd beter" (Improvement remains always possible). --MarcoSwart (overleg) 18 jun 2021 14:07 (CEST)

Thank you Marco, you've been so helpful the whole time. I kept opening other words to see how they're done. I'll save these templates for the next time I get busy. Goldenrowley (overleg) 18 jun 2021 20:20 (CEST)

2021 research

hè hè with accents on the e : why would someone repeat He He? Does this translate to English as hey hey, hee hee (giggling), or ha ha (the last one means laughter)?

• The type of accents does matter: it could be an unofficial form of hèhè, an interjection that expresses relief or just a repetition of hé to draw attention. --MarcoSwart (overleg) 5 mrt 2021 13:16 (CET)his appears

jonge jonge - at the beginning of some entries, sort of like an introduction.

• The customary form for this expression would be tjongejonge, based on tjonge. --MarcoSwart (overleg) 5 mrt 2021 13:16 (CET)

You are excellent, thank you . I also just found this explanation: tsjonge jonge jonge - tsjonge-jonge-jonge

Should the spelling variations, be added to the Wiktionary? Goldenrowley (overleg) 16 mei 2021 22:36 (CEST)

We show words that have entries in other reliable Dutch dictionaries or have been used independently in an ordinary Dutch sentence in at least three different publications. For Dutch after 1805 we only show variations that fit the official orthography rules. Repeating an interjection expressing an emotion or a sound is usually a grammatical possibility that could be mentioned on the page describing the interjection. When the reduplication takes on a meaning of its own, it usually is written as a single word, reflecting a subtle changes in the stress pattern. So I would not add repeated forms with spaces in between.

gewone gangetje / as in "gaan alles weer zijn gewone gangetje" - (an expression, I think) - literally translates as going to the hallway/alley, but figuratively going back to normal / all goes back to normal again.

• The underlying expression is "zijn gang gaan (under 6.): "doing things the way they are accustomed to, they like". In this case "gang" is just the old noun connected to the verb "gaan". Using "alles" as the subject means "things in general". The addition of "gewoon" and the use of the diminutive form "gangetje" stress the normal, familiar way things are going. So you're reading of the intended meaning of the whole sentence was correct.

Thanks ! Should it be added to Wiktionary as an alternate form zijn gang gaan? asked as I couldn't find it without help Goldenrowley (overleg) 16 mei 2021 22:36 (CEST)

We still lack very many idioms and even more variations of idioms. So the answer is probably yes. --MarcoSwart (overleg) 17 mei 2021 07:49 (CEST)

stillekens - Quietly? I got this from a verse shared in Poëzie book in 1943 written by a young girl scout; The stanza begins: "Wandel maar stillekens achter Hem aan" (translation: Walk Quitly After Him) – For a 1947 publication see Zangbund Joh. the Lord.[[1]]

Yes. Dutch has several adverbs that are derived from adjectives by adding a diminutive suffix followed by -s. One example is stilletjes. An older form of the diminutive suffix is -ke(n) instead of -(t)je, for instance manneke en manneken instead of mannetje or Marieke instead of Marietje.

wensch/wenschen - spelling of wens/wensen (translation: wish, wishes) I found it in a Poëzie Album in 1940's. Published uses of the word: - Geïllustreerde gids voor Twente (1912)[[2]] - Emmer-Courant (1918) [[3]] - Poëzie quotes: - "Wat papa natuurlijk graag zou wenschen" - "Dit is de wensch van je mama."

The official orthography dropped the -sch at the end of syllables, in 1935 in the Netherlands and in 1946 in Belgium. It was only kept

1. in the suffix -isch because the spelling -is would be confusing as it is pronounced -ies and using that spelling would create ambiguities: e.g. logisch would become identical with logies;
2. in bosschage to avoid confusion with bossage;
3. in older topographic names of the Netherlands ('s-Hertogenbosch, Hollandsch Diep).

This -sch indicated that a word originally was pronounced with a -sj sound. This is sometimes illustrated by the pronunciation of the same word in English: wens(ch) en wish or bos(ch) en bush. As the difference in sound between -sch and -s gradually had completely disappeared, it made sense to adjust the orthography. --MarcoSwart (overleg) 14 jun 2021 02:06 (CEST)

2020 research

You can help by adding any words missing on below lists to the Wiktionary -if legitimate words.

je schaamt je dood - translation: you're so ashamed you could die? - a conjugation of doodschamen --yes

zich een pukkel gelachen- literally: "laughed themself a pimple"; (idiom) laughing so hard you get pimples -- like ROFL

gezwaai - waving, used as a noun. DONE -- a lot of verbs form neuter ge+stem nouns, usually slightly derogatory, often indicating excessive actions

lag dubbel, translated: "lied down double"; (idiom) to laugh a whole lot (bending yourself so much you'd seem to be in 2 parts. -- ROFLMAO, to be in stitches

niet kunnen luchten of zien, literally "hate to smell or see" -- yes

nu en na* - now and after (probably like 'again and again', 'all the time') -- new to me

This is not a common phrase. After the preposition "na" a noun, pronoun or nominal phrase is expected, e.g. nu en na de vakantie = "now and after the holidays"; there is an expression nu en dan: "now and then, sometimes"

slapen als een roos - translated: to sleep like a rose; figuratively, to sleep soundly -- yes

ietsepietsje - a little bit. English translation - itsy bitsy DONE --ok

uitscheiden - to 'separate out’ or to disengage DONE -- to exude

moordbrief - (literal) death letter; (idiom) a killer letter, as in a wonderful letter -- the moord- prefix was popular in the 1950s-60s like groovy or so. DONE

badpants* - swim pants -- semi-anglicism for zwembroek: bad="bath, bathing"

blouseje - little blouse -- yes DONE

bloembollenvelden - flower bulbs fields - DONE

denneappels - pine cones? - DONE (dated term)

handgedruk - handshaking (see handdruk) -- see gezwaai; something like a whole lot of handshaking going on. Tiresome...

heimweeërig - little bit homesick

nagelgarnituurtjes - a small set of tools to groom nails.

pochetje -- a small hanky men put in the pocket on their chest of their suit DONE

heel kort - very short - DONE

---

Words found in Padvindster Literature:

padvinderij - boy scouts and girl scouts (not just boy scouts). - DONE

kabouter - padvinsters for younger girls about age 8-10, equivalent to the Brownies in the USA

padvindstersgilde -- padvindster + s + gilde, organization of girl scouts

Nederlandsche Padvindstersgilde -- Nederlandse "Dutch" in pre-1935 orthography padvindstersgilde - the organization's name

NPG - abbreviation of Nederlandse padvindster gilde. These initial are printed as part of the scouting clover symbol

nieuwelingkaart -- nieuweling + kaart - newcomer's card, not a common word outside scouting

een heitje voor een karweitje - (literally) a quarter for a chore (also an expression: ) the motto and slogan for an action in the 1950s in which the scouts did all kinds of odd jobs to raise money. --currently the info and a photo is under heitje

vendel - equivalent to a girl scout troupe in the USA

wees bereid - "be prepared" a scouting slogan, it appears inside the NPG clover logo

---

Dutch idioms

Hi Goldenrowley,

It is great you want to contribute to WikiWoordenboek. Maybe the following tips might come in handy.

We are gradually adding more idiomatic expressions to WikiWoordenboek, so most of the expressions you mention should indeed be explained, either on a seperate page or on the page of the main word in the expression.

As far as I know, there no expression "nu en na". My guess would be that after "na" some future event was mentioned, in which case the meaning would be "now and after <the future event>".

As you probably noticed "allemensen" already has a page; it is an expression of strong surprise, comparable to "holymoley".

The official spelling of "uit scheiden" is "uitscheiden", likewise "zometeen" is zo meteen.

Furthermore, "je schaamt je dood" is a conjugation of doodschamen, "lag dubbel" of "dubbel liggen" (see: dubbel) and "niet… luchten of zien" is explained under "iemand niet kunnen luchten of zien" on "luchten".

Your translation of "slapen als een roos" looks fine to me.

There are many expressions where the meaning of "lachen" is strengthened by adding an extreme fictitious result of it. So "een pukkel gelachen" could be translated "(have) laughed very hard (literally: until it resulted in a pimple)".

Both Dutch and WikiWoordenboek can be quite bewildering to newcomers. So feel free to ask follow-up questions. --MarcoSwart (overleg) 13 aug 2020 23:07 (CEST)

A few remarks on the words you added:

• "waved" would be "gezwaaid", "gezwaain" is not valid Dutch, another possibility would be "gezwaai", "waving (used as a noun)";
• "uitjepietje" might be a variant of "ietsepietsje
• "moordbrief" is literally a "letter resulting in a murder", but "moord-" can be used as prefix to express strong appreciation, similar to the English expression "to kill for".

--MarcoSwart (overleg) 24 aug 2020 10:26 (CEST)

Thank you MarcoSwart. I am glad for your input. It is so helpful! Goldenrowley (overleg) 24 aug 2020 23:06 (CEST)

Some new remarks:

• the diminutive form of blouse is spelled blouseje
• could "bloembollenwerlden" be "bloembollenvelden (fields where bulbflowers are grown)
• could "dennepers" be "denneappels , the pre-1996 spelling of dennenappels (pinecones)
• "heimweerig" looks like creative writing to me, I would prefer the spelling "heimweeërig" (heimwee + -erig); it could mean "a little homesick, with a whiff of homesickness"
• nagelgarnituurtjes would be the plural of the diminutive form of nagelgarnituur a set of tools to groom nails (like a clipper and a file)
• in your example you write "Dit zal wel weer heel bort worden" instead of "heel bord"; the former might be a misreading of "heel kort" (very short), the example sentence could be translated as: "This will probably again be very short"

--MarcoSwart (overleg) 7 sep 2020 02:45 (CEST)

Wow that is fantastic, MarcoSwart! I think you may be right on many counts; as my source's handwriting was all cursive so the characters are very subtle. Also I am very grateful that this NL Dutch Wiktionary exists. It has been my main resource while translating. Goldenrowley (overleg) 8 sep 2020 05:42 (CEST)

We aim to please! --MarcoSwart (overleg) 8 sep 2020 23:00 (CEST)

scouting

• padvinster should be padvindster with -d-

Jcwf (overleg) 8 sep 2020 16:11 (CEST)

• kabouter means literally gnome --MarcoSwart (overleg) 8 sep 2020 23:00 (CEST)

Thank you I know, we have kabouters all around my house. It also is what they called the youngest age group of girl scouts. Goldenrowley (overleg) 5 mrt 2021 10:12 (CET)