Overleg sjabloon:-isnoun-

Hello, I just wanted to let You know that the correct order of the cases is:

1. nefnifall (nominatief)
2. þolfall (accusatief)
3. þágufall (datief)
4. eignarfall (genitief)

not

1. nominatief
2. genitief
3. datief
4. accusatief

If nl.wikty want the declensions to be of any use for Icelandic learners they should change that order because every book or learning resource (every serious one) does use that order that the Icelanders use, it has not only practial use (nominatief and accusatief are often the same, the article also!, e.g. -inn for masculine, -ið for neuter singular in nominatief and accusatief, etc etc etc.) but also genitief is not that often used.

Of course nl.wikt can do whatever they want, but maybe it is not a good idea to invent the wheel new and to make it more difficult for learners to compare the declensions with other resources they use. Best regards, --vogeltje _{(:> )=|} 5 jun 2009 20:40 (CEST)

Seems no one is interested whether the Icelandic entries here are useful or not, --vogeltje _{(:> )=|} 30 dec 2009 12:57 (CET)

Hmm, I didn't see this comment in June, I must have missed it. Considering this, I think it should be changed. And we should check if we now have tables that give wrong information, where accusatief en nominatief have changed places. Do you (all) agree? Groeten GRUNNEN ^OVERLEG 30 dec 2009 15:56 (CET)

I don't know... nomatief, genitief, datief, accusatief seems like a pretty good order. We've been using it in every template we have here and so did en.wikt, fr.wikt and de.wikt and many others... I don't see why we should change this. Above that, it's a lot of work to change it... Tvdm 30 dec 2009 19:38 (CET)

Well, one reason to change it is because it may well be that now we messed up forms and their name in at least some lemmata. I am pretty sure the Icelandic words I added are wrong now becouse of this difference in order and I may well be not the only one that got confused. And it would certainly be a lot of work. Groeten GRUNNEN ^OVERLEG 30 dec 2009 21:32 (CET)

Hello, I don't know what makes You say that en.wikt (en:Template:is-decl-noun), fr.wikt (fr:Modèle:is-nom), de.wikt (de:Vorlage:Isländisch Substantiv Übersicht) and many others ? ? ? ? ? ? ? use this unusual order for Icelandic nouns... I just informed You that this sort order used here is not for any use for anyone who really would like to learn this language (declensions are very important), but as said, it is of course up to nl.wikt what to do with that information.

Br. --vogeltje _{(:> )=|} 30 dec 2009 22:08 (CET)

P.S. Changing I would do like that: changing the variables in the template to something unique like "{{{1|{{{enkelvoud-nominatief-onbepaald|}}}}}}" or something short for it, run a bot through special:whatlinkshere/Sjabloon:-isnoun- letting it add the variables in the current sort order and just changing the template afterwards, it is just 200 entries, that is nothing in reality... --vogeltje _{(:> )=|} 30 dec 2009 22:21 (CET)

P.P.S. nl.wikt has the same problem with Sjabloon:-fonoun-, [1]..., I am not sure why the wheel is invented new. Br. --vogeltje _{(:> )=|} 31 dec 2009 01:08 (CET)

I've repaired the incorrect flexions for Icelandic and Faroese. --vogeltje _{(:> )=|} 31 dec 2009 01:56 (CET)

I do agree this should be changed. At li.wikt Spacebirdy also asked me to change the order and I've changed it now, because the only reason why the other order is useful is that nominatief is the "eerste naamval". At li.wikit "èègenersval" (nominatief) links to an article which tells a reader that it is the "ieëste val". And also, there is no need for changing parameters immediately. Just place an entire row and not replace the parameters (like so). Of course, eventually it would be better to change the parameters, I don't know how difficult it is to do that. --Ooswesthoesbes 31 dec 2009 07:00 (CET)

@Vogeltje Thanks a lot for correcting it.

@Wikiwoordenboekers, wat gaan we nu doen met de volgorde? We zouden het sjabloon kunnen wijzigen en er een botje achteraan sturen om de aanpassing op de lemma's door te voeren. Er zijn 203 IJslandse znw'en en 23 Fareurse. Dat is misschien wat veel om met de hand bij te werken. Inhoudelijk denk ik dat het zinvol is om deze aanpassing te maken omdat dat aansluit bij het gebruik in het IJslands. Als ik op, zeg, de Swahilische wikt een Duitse naamvaltabel tegenkom met de genitief op de vierde plaats, dan raak ik ook in de war. Of stel dat je hier op nl.wikt begint met het leren van IJslandse woorden (tegen de tijd dat we er meer van hebben) en dan in de war raakt met de terminologie van eerste, tweede enz naamval, die niet overeenkomt met de volgorde waarin hier de naamvallen gepresenteerd worden. Groeten GRUNNEN ^OVERLEG 31 dec 2009 11:48 (CET)